New Rifle, 'Whack' Throat???

[RMGunner]

Today I got to measuring bullet-to-land contact on my new Savage 10 PH Max 1, 6.5 Creed in preparation for first loads and rifle break-in.

Before I explain the issue, let me tell that my measurements are not an error on my part. I carefully rmeasured, and carefully re-measured again, and again, and again! Next, I started seating an empty case and seating it down until it would chamber and the numbers came out close enough to my measurements that I know it's not my error.

Using a Barnes Match Burner, I get a BTO of 2.040" and an OAL of 2.650".  Very consistent and repeatable.

Doing the math against SAAMI minimum chamber specs, it would appear that my rifle's throat is only 0.115" and should be a minimum of 0.215" freebore.

But here is the rest of the story.  I can mark a bullet with a Sharpie and strongly JAM it into the bore and it will not show any land marks!  It's almost as if the throat is partially undersized and the bullet will not pass through it to make it to the lands???

I thought perhaps there was a burr at the end of the throat causing the bullet to wedge at that point but I can't see anything, feel anything with a patch, or knock anything out with a bronze brush!

I'll call Savage tomorrow and discuss this.  I got a bad feeling my brand new, unfired rifle will be headed back to the manufacturer.

Any ideas or speculation would be appreciated???

Unfired and likely an out-of-spec chamber.

[Ed]

Although mine is a 12LRP I had the same issue and had to send it back. All good now but makes you wonder about final inspection.

[RMGunner]

Ed, thanks for that reply.

This is the first Savage centerfire I've ever owned..., and maybe the last!

[Aussie65]

There has been a few Savages posted on here over the last couple of years. Most with chamber issues too.
Poor finish or too short generally. Quite a few LRPs.
When you go into a gun shop & these things are in the back of your mind , you think twice about a brand especially when you've had no issues like I have had with Ruger & Howa.
I'm the same with cars. I stick with my Toyota Landcruisers. They just never let me down.

[Danbonzo]

RM there was a lot of Savages with short leads that somehow got to boxes. But that was a ways back and most thought the issue was fixed moving forward. Sounds like you caught the clap. Sucks, I know the feeling, my luck is so bad that if it was raining pu$$eez I'd be the only guy who gets hit in the head w a dik!
I get your pissed and you should be BUT Savage CS is good. If you make the call and can manage not to blow a gasket they will deal with it. As far as I have heard all the ones that came back repaired are very good shooters, in line with the brands reputation. Ive  had 3 Savages and they are all hammers. I'd urge you to give them a shot to make it right when your BP goes down.
Sometimes bad lots of powder hit market, doesn't mean you never use Hodgdon again right?? Breathe bro, breathe.

[Philbie]

I had a Savage rifle with this issue.  Took it to my smith.  Turn around was days not weeks/months and I didn't have to deal with shipping it.  Think it cost around $40.

[RMGunner]

Dan, thanks for the laugh this morning!

Guys, thanks for the advice. Don't know why, but somehow it makes me feel better about my bad luck this morning.

This is the first 'factory' rifle I've bought in 25-years. All my good rifles have been built with quality barrels on 700 actions. Savage has established such a good reputation over the last couple decades (since Coburn took over) thought I would give one a try.  I'm normally a very 'lucky' person..., not so much with this one!

[jvw2008]

RM it might be a good idea to run it in to your gunsmith for a quick peek with a bore scope before you call Savage. That way you have your opinion and a gunsmiths to use when you call them. When you say, "my gunsmith found .........", it carries a little more clout.

[dadajack]

Is the bearing surface of the bullet scratched? I know the throat in my LRP has tight throat and I have to really push bullets in to find the lands. It shoots great, and possibly saves me on powder since I don;t have to load 43 grains of H4350 to get my 140s singing at 2750 fps. I like it anyway. But, I'm still going to rebarrel it anyway. Have to scratch that itch.

[RMGunner]

Dada, I can force close the bolt on test rounds (empty) enough to stick them in the bore and have to drive them out with a wood dowel and there are no lands marks on the bullet at all.  Like I said above, it's as if the bullet is being shoved into a smooth round hole that's undersized???  And yes, I measured the O.D. of the bullets.

I tried 3 different bullets & cases which by the way showed as much as .015" difference in OAL, but the BTO was pretty close on all three.

The cases are brand new Hornady and I chose three exact same length.  I ran the cases over the expander button/ball and lightly chamfered the mouths.  The case shoulders measure .002" under SAAMI minimums and the cases alone chamber fine. The shoulder measurements are from using a Hornady tool so measurements are not exact but show close enough to know there is not a large dimensional error.

[dadajack]

Well, if you are putting a shiny new bullet in the chamber, getting lots of friction, but no signs of rubbing along the ogive or bearing surface, it makes little sense that the bullet is rubbing. Maybe my chamber is really rough, but I can always see linear marks alonb the bearing surface of most bullets I chamber in my LRP. Some 120 A-MAX and 140 BTHP wouldn't even chamber like you are saying, but they always had the tell-tale signs of rubbing inside the throat. I sold a box of 490 140 BTHP bacause about 75% of them were very hard to chamber, and the other 25% would not chamber at all. Hornady said they were all in spec based on lot#.

The only thing you can say for sure is that the freebore is not too short if you cannot see the lands on bullets when you fully chamber them. Like Dan said, I'd give Savage an opportunity to make it right, or better. You might find that the rifle shoots pretty darn good with a tight throat though.

[RMGunner]

Dada, since it is physically impossible to engrave the lands into the bullet (by hand) that makes me wonder whether the throat diameter itself is undersized. I know it seems highly unlikely but it's not out of the realm of possibility that the throat reamer used was worn-out and undersized.

Can you imagine the pressure that would be created by dropping the hammer on a round in a chamber that has a tight throat?  I'm not risking that..., it's going back to Savage.

I did think about just taking it to the local gunsmith but the store where I bought the rifle will send it back to Savage at the stores expense so that's what I am doing.  Bet I won't see the rifle back for 2-months! Very frustrating!


Randy (yes, another Randy  )

[velvetant]

Ran into the same problem as you but on a custom tight throat rifle.
Have you tried a different bullet, the Barnes match burners I checked run  .2642. and won't fit my tight throat rifle.
Berger run .2638 and work just fine,
I did't measure the diameter of Hornady but think they a good since I could seat them to 2.850.

Randy

[RMGunner]

Ran into the same problem as you but on a custom tight throat rifle.
Have you tried a different bullet, the Barnes match burners I checked run  .2642. and won't fit my tight throat rifle.
Berger run .2638 and work just fine,
I did't measure the diameter of Hornady but think they a good since I could seat them to 2.850.

Randy

Randy, thanks for that info. and now you have me really wondering???  I just measured 10-match burners with calipers (not a mic.) and they ran from .2642"-.2645".  7 out of 10 were at .2645".  I'm going  to sand one of those Barnes down to your Berger specs. and test again.

Damned of it is I already pulled my meticulously installed optics and re-boxed the rifle for shipping. :-(

Anyone have an actual diameter dimension for the new ELD-M?


Randy

[dadajack]

They fit in the same rifle that would not accept 0.2645" projectiles that the 140 HPBT measured. I have never had an issue with Sierra or Nosler not fitting the throat of my LRP. I would try them as well, if you can get your hands on some.