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Topic: MOA all DAY? (Read 7439 times) previous topic - next topic

MOA all DAY?

Some other forums I've been reading typically have a MOA all DAY or "how good are you thread" that I haven't seen here.  Let see if people are interested in posting given lots of guys talking about their bughole groups all day long with their 6.5's =)

generally accepted rules - http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2016/06/07/can-shoot-moa-day-long/
example thread on another site - https://www.ar15.com/forums/t_1_5/1483386_THE_ARFCOM_1_MOA_ALL_DAY_LONG_CHALLENGE.html

I'm not a stickler for the exact rules - aside from needing minimum of 5 shots for 5 groups on single identifiable target with no "extra shots" on it.  anything else is fair game as far as i'm concerned, 100 pound rail gun, leadsled, biopod, front and rear sandbags, as long as you tell us exactly how you did is so people can compare their own results.  everyone usually wants to know all the kit involved, so the more details the better including reload info. 

Extra credit points if you show more shots per group, more groups on one target, or at results at longer than 100 yards - but every group has to have the same number of shots to count!

If folks get into it - I'll volunteer to scan a bunch of threads and find anyone making outrageous accuracy claims and we can list them as call outs in need of "proving" - I've found that part amusing on a few other sites.


Re: MOA all DAY?

Reply #1
I'll go first.  Shot 11 groups of 5 today while testing out factory ammo vs reloads where I started using a mandrel for the first time. 

Ruger RPR gen 2 with brake,  about 2k shots down the barrel,  front harris bipod, rear wiebad squeezable mini range cube bag.  Vortext PST gen1 6-24x 56mm scope.  Factory loads shot were Hornady 147gr ELDMs.  My reloads are 43.8gr of RL-16, 147 ELD bullets, CCI BR2 primers using both hornady and winchester once fired cases.

11x5 shot groups averages out to 0.896 MOA by the rules.  As first poster I believe that puts me in the #1 most accurate shooter spot on the list!  :D

Things I thought interesting - if I exclude factory ammo groups: .907 MOA (barely higher than including them),  if i choose just best 5/11 groups .792 MOA, if i excluded the "flier" in each group of all 11 groups .570.  Seems to me I need to focus most on how to eliminate that one bad shot per group to improve most.  Not my best shooting, but certainly not my worse either.  I think I can dial in the reloads a with a bit more technique on the mandrel, but its not clear to me that my shooting isn't responsible for most (all) the fliers making good 4/5 groups, "just ok" 5/5 groups.

Re: MOA all DAY?

Reply #2
dnellans,
I see that your target is from Best Of The West.  If that is where you shoot, is it the one outside Liberty Hill?
No Borders, No Language, No Culture = No Country.
Golden Years, my ass.

Re: MOA all DAY?

Reply #3
Yup - I live nearby so try and get out there once a week.  I'm lucky to have a public 1k yards range within 20 minutes of the house!  Are you a local as well?  We may have run into each other without knowing it...  Not -that- many guys shooting the long range side regularly

Re: MOA all DAY?

Reply #4
I usually get out there on Thursdays, unless it's cold, wet, to too damn hot like today.  Live south out towards Oak Hill so it's almost an hour up MOPAC to get there (if I'm lucky).  Good bunch of guys out there.
No Borders, No Language, No Culture = No Country.
Golden Years, my ass.

Re: MOA all DAY?

Reply #5
I'm lucky to have a public 1k yards range within 20 minutes of the house!

You are one of the lucky ones....I could only wish for such.  I drive 1.5hr one way to get to a 600yd range at a private club.

On to the subject of MOA all day.  With properly sorted/carefully and precisely loaded ammunition and a solid rifle/steady rest position and a good shooter it is easily obtainable.  My gunsmith just shot a personal best at 600yds with a 600-41X....meaning 60/60 shots in 1 MOA and 41/60 in .5 MOA over a 4.5 hr match at 600yds.  Perhaps not all day but no slouch ;)  ;D .  The range record is 600-44X.  In my competition rifles I would not settle for a load that cannot shoot 5 shot groups under .5 MOA and strive to get those to .3 MOA at 300yds during testing.  (And this is the standard for most of my fellow competitors)  Could this be done with your average factory rifle/barrel/trigger....probably not.  However, I see many claims of 1/4 or 1/2 MOA all day long from mostly factory rifles (many claims using factory ammo) and to those I raise the silent B.S. flag.  Keep up the work and practice you are doing, constantly strive for perfection and to 'up your game' and I would not be surprised if one day you will be able to post a 100yd 5X5 shot aggregate at .5 MOA.

PS- I just measure the center to center extreme spread of 12 shots I took during a ladder test at 300yds in preliminary testing of a new rifle ton find a load for fireforming that will be suitable for a tactical rifle 600yd prone match (6 Creedmoor).  The total group of 12 shots was 2.766" or .922 MOA.  This was with new Lapua 6.5 Creedmoor cases necked down to 6mm, no uniforming/trimming....just sized, mandrel expanded to 0.002" 'neck tension' and loaded with Berger 105 hybrids over H4350 / Wolf SRM primer / spread of 1.5gr charge in  0.3gr increments (41.4-42.9).  This is NOT a factory gun but a Borden action/Bix'n Andy 2oz. trigger/ KRG chassis/ Bartelein 26" barrel.  But, as I have posted, the RPR in 6.5 Creedmoor will do quite well.

Re: MOA all DAY?

Reply #6
FrankenCreed will shoot 1/2 MOA all day and it's not even built
with them elite parts.....Hell I don't even use a rear rest.  8)
Case in point is,  some times them top notch, big dollar guns
shoot some huge groups at 100 yards. I've witnessed an Accuracy
International (.308)miss 3" plates at 100 yard. I'll probably see him
at tomorrows match to see if he's worked out the jitters, and put
more weight on his trigger.  It's embarrassing as all hell when you
see a fellow shooters round impact about a yard low into the dirt. :D

Rardoin......you people with them 2 0z triggers, aint' right..... :D
The kid in question above, had his set in the ounce range, expecting
miracles. I told him to put 2 lbs minimum on it, and get some practice
in.
Keeping my bad Kharma intact since 1952

Re: MOA all DAY?

Reply #7
Didn't take me all day but here's the result of a 15 round string from my 6.5 CM Savage (in MDT-Tac21 Chassis).



When my rifle's stop shooting sub MOA (or even more than sub .5 MOA) I order a new barrel from Benchmark.

The above group was jut practice to make sure I could sight, shoot, load, repeat, all without breaking position.  The load had a super low SD/ES and I just shot out the rest of the box to see how well it would do in this barrel.  

Group measures 1/3 MOA with the "Average to Center" at .075 MOA.

US Army 1965-1972

Re: MOA all DAY?

Reply #8
that's great shooting desdshot! what distance were you shooting and off a bipod, benchrest, etc?

Re: MOA all DAY?

Reply #9
that's great shooting desdshot! what distance were you shooting and off a bipod, benchrest, etc?

Was only 100 yards but was prone off bipod (an Atlas PSR).   "X-Ring" is only .75 inches and target was printed on 8-1/2 X 11 sheet of paper.

Here's a 200 yard target from same rifle, different day.   Only 5 shots this time.



US Army 1965-1972

Re: MOA all DAY?

Reply #10
Was only 100 yards but was prone off bipod (an Atlas PSR).   "X-Ring" is only .75 inches and target was printed on 8-1/2 X 11 sheet of paper.

In that first picture of black and white target at 100 yards... How is that 1/3 moa if xring  is .75 inches and your extreme is approx touching both sides? did you mean 2/3 MOA?  that would make more sense

Re: MOA all DAY?

Reply #11
not too many takers yet so i'll post some more attempts.

was raining today but decided to go out and try anyways. reloaded my first 223 for gas gun so wanted to give it a shot with that too.

long story short, maybe it was the rain, maybe gun was dirty, maybe was just a bad day. 8 groups of 5 with 65creedmoor. bunch under 1moa, others not. average of all 8 - 1.05moa.

moved to lower half of target for 223 and 5 groups of 5 average .84 moa! super happy with that out of 18 inch all factory gas gun (armalite 3gun model) that has never gotten factory ammo under 1moa.

also makes me think maybe my 6.5 needs a cleaning since my shooting was ok with one gun but not the other.

i'm finding shooting groups like this good for my concentration, hard hold, and trigger control practice before doing any positional or long range shooting. 4 good shots and pressure is on not to fuck up the fifth!


Re: MOA all DAY?

Reply #12

 4 good shots and pressure is on not to fuck up the fifth!


Very seldom I shoot 5 in a group anymore. 3 tells me what I need
to know. I know some that shoot 4 claiming that's an extra group
from a box of 20. Either way, if you start feeling tight in the neck;
take a break for a few minutes (with an empty chamber) to knock
that tension down.

I did some yard work at the range yesterday, but did get in a few
shots with the Creedmoor. I shot this pretty 3 shot, 6.5" group at
300 yards. Damn, FrankenCreed is a bit nose heavy, taking a standing
off hand shot. It's more then ready for deer season..... ;) 
Keeping my bad Kharma intact since 1952

Re: MOA all DAY?

Reply #13
For ME.
100 yard testing is useless. As a 1000 yd i.b.s .shooter I test at 400 most of the times for new loads and further when fine tuning.
A .191 center to center group is not magic with good equipment, good loads, and my choice of free recoil and a Jewell set at 3oz.
I used to shoot at 1-1/2 oz but the recoil from a neighbors lane will cause me to pull one.
I haven't changed anything in my light gun in a long time, and changed phones several times so I dont have pictures. Im not one for a bunch of pictures anyway.
A plaque, medal or check usually is proof for me it's shooting
"kill em all"

Re: MOA all DAY?

Reply #14
Very seldom I shoot 5 in a group anymore. 3 tells me what I need
to know. I know some that shoot 4 claiming that's an extra group
from a box of 20. Either way, if you start feeling tight in the neck;
take a break for a few minutes (with an empty chamber) to knock
that tension down.

I did some yard work at the range yesterday, but did get in a few
shots with the Creedmoor. I shot this pretty 3 shot, 6.5" group at
300 yards. Damn, FrankenCreed is a bit nose heavy, taking a standing
off hand shot. It's more then ready for deer season..... ;) 


2.x MOA standing is pretty damn good at any distance!  Using a sling or totally free-handing it?

By the math (from Bryan Litz's new book) a 3 shot 1 MOA group opens up to 1.28MOA with 5 shots, 1.58MOA with 10 shots, 1.85MOA with 20 shots "on average".  The numbers are scaled relatively smaller if you start with a much tighter groups  3 shots at .25MOA becomes .32, .40, .46 at 5, 10, 20 shots respectively.  But thats also assuming you don't pull a shot like I seem to regularly =/