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Topic: MOA all DAY? (Read 10246 times) previous topic - next topic

Re: MOA all DAY?

Reply #15
Didn't take me all day but here's the result of a 15 round string from my 6.5 CM Savage (in MDT-Tac21 Chassis).



When my rifle's stop shooting sub MOA (or even more than sub .5 MOA) I order a new barrel from Benchmark.

The above group was jut practice to make sure I could sight, shoot, load, repeat, all without breaking position.  The load had a super low SD/ES and I just shot out the rest of the box to see how well it would do in this barrel.  

Group measures 1/3 MOA with the "Average to Center" at .075 MOA.


HEY DEADSHOT2 I SEE THE FIRST THREE (NICE GROUP) BUT WHERES THE TARGET WITH THE OTHER TWELVE SHOTS? LOL

Re: MOA all DAY?

Reply #16
not too many takers yet so i'll post some more attempts.

was raining today but decided to go out and try anyways. reloaded my first 223 for gas gun so wanted to give it a shot with that too.

long story short, maybe it was the rain, maybe gun was dirty, maybe was just a bad day. 8 groups of 5 with 65creedmoor. bunch under 1moa, others not. average of all 8 - 1.05moa.

moved to lower half of target for 223 and 5 groups of 5 average .84 moa! super happy with that out of 18 inch all factory gas gun (armalite 3gun model) that has never gotten factory ammo under 1moa.

also makes me think maybe my 6.5 needs a cleaning since my shooting was ok with one gun but not the other.

i'm finding shooting groups like this good for my concentration, hard hold, and trigger control practice before doing any positional or long range shooting. 4 good shots and pressure is on not to fuck up the fifth!


I doubt you see many groups from this forum as far as moa for a day goes.. I personally don't see this forum as a braggert bunch... you will however see several groups from ocw testing and the results from getting their load and gun shooting well with the help and advice from some of the guys that know how to develop a load that is 1/2 moa or better... I like hearing what them folks have to say... its helped my venture into loading good rounds for my rifles in so many ways... I cant think them enough... I'm kind of disappointed in my groups now if their not all touching.. at the least half moa... at a hundred... I've posted several groups on hear along with ocw test looking for the members wisdom and input to help me get them better...im still working on getting them better at distance but I think that's me not being very efficient reading wind... and not my rounds...
Grant

Re: MOA all DAY?

Reply #17
Best I've ever done on 3" plates at 300 yards on a sunny, windless
day, with Hornady factory 140 ELD loads......I will mourn the day, I
burn this barrel out.
Keeping my bad Kharma intact since 1952


Re: MOA all DAY?

Reply #19
In that first picture of black and white target at 100 yards... How is that 1/3 moa if xring  is .75 inches and your extreme is approx touching both sides? did you mean 2/3 MOA?  that would make more sense

I re-measured, this time using "ON TARGET" and was off in my original estimate.  Here's the ON TARGET analysis, with the measurements calibrated for the actual size of the target.



Still sub .5 MOA.    Take a look at the average to center though.  If I hadn't strung out the three shots to the left it would be less than 1/8 MOA.  

I do love this barrel and have stopped messing with the load. :)
US Army 1965-1972

Re: MOA all DAY?

Reply #20
D.S.,
With groups like those I would not mess with anything - and you should wear the same "lucky briefs" every time you shoot.

Eric B.
"I can stop buying guns and gun stuff anytime I want - I've done it hundreds of times."

Re: MOA all DAY?

Reply #21
I re-measured, this time using "ON TARGET" and was off in my original estimate.  Here's the ON TARGET analysis, with the measurements calibrated for the actual size of the target.



Still sub .5 MOA.    Take a look at the average to center though.  If I hadn't strung out the three shots to the left it would be less than 1/8 MOA.  

I do love this barrel and have stopped messing with the load. :)

i'm impressed with the centering on it, did you shoot sighters before hand to zero or was that straight out of a cold bore?

Re: MOA all DAY?

Reply #22
i'm impressed with the centering on it, did you shoot sighters before hand to zero or was that straight out of a cold bore?

Literally out of the box that day.   The "box" being a Pelican case.    I never worry about zero changing while rifle is in case or being handled.   Chassis has integral picatinney rail, rings are 34 mm Seekins, and scope is a NF BEAST which makes for a solid setup.
US Army 1965-1972

Re: MOA all DAY?

Reply #23
Can't say I even shoot at 100yds much any more just to get a scope on paper. Most load development is done at 385yds which is my max range at the house and gives me a better idea how a load is doing than 100yds does. Then I head to the family farm where my 1000yd range is with poured concrete benches and really have some fun. I've actually done that accuracy test before with one of my AR15's 3/4 moa average if I remember correctly with an auto loader to shoot consistently MOA or better is a challenge with most precision bolt guns not so much. I would guess most regular guys on here don't bother with doing much 100yd shooting.

Re: MOA all DAY?

Reply #24
I would guess most regular guys on here don't bother with doing much 100yd shooting.

I do initial load tests at 100....unless I can get those perfect mornings right as the sun is rising, wind less than 2 mph or so and no mirage.  These days are rare in south Louisiana so I do about half of my inital load work at 100 then take it out to 300-600 (mostly 300 as the 600yd range is more travel time).

As far as MOA all day....At a 600yd match today I put 39 of my first 40 record shots into 1 MOA (10 ring) and 24/40 into 1/2 MOA (X ring).  I did NOT win the match as I dropped four points in the last relay to end up with 595-30X.  The match winner shot 600-?x (don't remember the x count).  Another fellow F class shooter, who is very accomplished, just last week shot a 1400-113X match aggregate.  That is 80 shots one day and 60 shots the next day all inside of 1 MOA at 600yds....113 of them inside 1/2 MOA.  That is truly "MOA all day".  The shooter is Brian Bowling from Tennessee.  He usually, but not always, wins our matches at the range I compete at.  It is truly amazing to watch someone of that talent.

I post this to show what is possible.  However, most of the 'net claims with factory rifle and average loading techniques would not hold up.  The results I posted require very selective loading techniques, well developed loads, more than you average factory rifle, and much practice on hold/ shot release/ wind reading.  There are many very capable shooters I have come to know on this site and at matches and we all started at the same level at some time.  I have not even made mention of benchrest shooters......!!!  If I still had a photo*#ucket account I would post a picture of the 600yd F-open single string record (shot on a virgin target at the first relay of our state championship match last October where my gunsmith, Shawn Broussard, shot a 200-22X...breaking the old record of 200-19X by a 'mile'.  Everyone knew what it took to shoot 22 shots in a row in under 24 minutes at 1/2 MOA and figured that record would stand for years.  It was promptly broken by and old distinguished bench rest shooter at the Berger SW F-class nationals within six months with a 200-24X.  The shooter was the one and only Lester Bruno.

Re: MOA all DAY?

Reply #25
rardoin - one of my main motivations for posting this was to try and get a feel for what exceptional shooting is among various "setups". i think we all can agree that the heavy benchrest guy will do better than f-class, who will do better than a guy shooting off a harris bipod with a bag, and so on. unfortunately there have been lots of posts but few results.

as an f-class shooter banging the X at 600, i assume you're using a standard f-class super wide bipod, leather rear slide bag, free recoiling it, etc. have you ever tried shooting same gun off a more common hunting setup like harris bipod and rear sandbag having to hard hold it?  how much worse do your results get?

Re: MOA all DAY?

Reply #26

As an f-class shooter banging the X at 600, i assume you're using a standard f-class super wide bipod, leather rear slide bag, free recoiling it, etc. have you ever tried shooting same gun off a more common hunting setup like harris bipod and rear sandbag having to hard hold it?  how much worse do your results get?

I'm glad you posted that last statement.  ;)   As for the rear sand bag ??
get rid of that too. :D
Keeping my bad Kharma intact since 1952

Re: MOA all DAY?

Reply #27
Dnellans, my F-open rifle is 21.5lbs and is only shot off a front rest (Seb NEO is what I use) and a rear bag.  It would not be practical to shoot it off a bipod due to stock design.  I have shot a 594-32 or 32X at 600yds, F-class target, with my Ruger PR, 6.5 Creedmoor, Harris folding bipod and a Protektor small rear bag.  That equates to 56/60 shots at/under 1 MOA.  I am an average shooter at the matches I shoot.  I propose that with decent equipment, and precise loading technique, proper load workup, and plenty of practice most anyone on this forum can achieve these results if they persevere.  I also view the claims of "my gun will shoot 1/2 MOA ALL DAY" with great scepticism when someone posts that they have an 'off the shelf' rifle and factory ammo or such.  I do get entertained by such posts.  These guys usually don't hang around long when they are challenged.  One fellow from the great state of Tennessee comes to mind at the moment. ;D

Re: MOA all DAY?

Reply #28
rardoin,
I noticed one key word in your post,"PRACTICE".  If you don't spend the time getting to know all that wonderful equipment you just spent the kids inheritance on, you will never take it to it's full potential, or reach yours.  Great equipment is a wonderful thing, but you still have to put in time behind the trigger.  Which, by the way, I never seem to do.
All my guns are steel and wood.  Well most all.
Golden Years, my ass.

Re: MOA all DAY?

Reply #29
rardoin,
I noticed one key word in your post,"PRACTICE".  Great equipment is a wonderful thing, but you still have to put in time behind the trigger.


That was the best advice I was ever given.....and when I FINALLY listened my ability to hold good groups and better my match scores improved dramatically.  Those pesky 'fliers' seemed to come less often also ...wierd huh ;) .